Press Office

Aired: Sunday, 7 February, 2010 10:00
Sunday Live

Any quotes used must be attributed to Sky News, Sunday Live

ADAM BOULTON:In a wearily familiar Northern Irish political marathon, it took ten days and nights before an agreement was finally reached this week between Sinn Fein and the Ulster Unionists over justice and policing in Northern Ireland. Well joining me now from Gloucestershire the man who was perhaps the midwife to all that, Sean Woodward MP, the Northern Ireland secretary in the British cabinet. Mr Woodward, thank you for being with us. The truth of it is really there was no alternative but to an agreement, given that both the parties, Sinn Fein and the DUP, have been damaged by scandal and defecting supporters, isn’t it?

SHAUN WOODWARD:I don't think that’s entirely true, Adam. I think what we have to recognise here is that this was the last part of the political process, this is a political process which was born from the peace process itself and what the parties really had to face here was a crunch moment – are we going to make all of this work or are we going to allow the whole thing, potentially, to fall to pieces? So this was always going to be a difficult negotiation because the parties actually were facing up to whether or not they wanted everything to work, sharing power in a fair way with respect and trust for everybody or allowing the politics of the old to come back and it was a difficult time, but they made the right decision and I think we should all pay tribute to the courage and leadership of all the parties involved in this.

ADAM BOULTON:Isn’t that nonsense though, isn’t the fact that the people of Northern Ireland have now moved on, every interview that I saw with ordinary people were saying how could they possibly do it and that the Northern Irish politicians are addicted both to the large salaries they gather and to media attention.

SHAUN WOODWARD:Well that’s a pretty cynical view of things. If you think about how the peace process and the political process has transformed Northern Ireland it is …

ADAM BOULTON:I don't think it’s a cynical view, I think it’s a widely held view actually.

SHAUN  WOODWARD:Well I think we have to recognise what the peace process and the political process has achieved. If it was so easy, Adam, there would never have been the Troubles. If it was so easy, we would have got agreements in the 80s and the 90s. If it was so easy, as you’re suggesting, life would have been very, very different but it wasn’t like that.

ADAM BOULTON:We did get the agreement in principle in 1998 didn’t we?

SHAUN WOODWARD:With respect, we started a process, George Mitchell who has been a good friend to us through all of this …

ADAM BOULTON:Actually it ended the process.

SHAUN WOODWARD:… was very, very clear. What he said when Good Friday was reached was this is the beginning, it’s not the end, now the hard work starts and it has taken a long time but look how Northern Ireland has changed, look how it has been transformed, look how today people go to school, people go to work, not in fear that they won’t come home but in a very different way and enjoy the kind of life that people enjoy anywhere else in the UK. That’s why this agreement mattered. 

ADAM BOULTON:Yes, I understand that but what I am really asking you is whether the politicians, the political class if you want to call it, in Northern Ireland are the people to go on leading. In reality, let’s take for example Sinn Fein, do you think that a Protestant majority would ever accept a man, Martin McGuinness, who is a former terrorist as First Minister?

SHAUN WOODWARD:I think Martin McGuinness said something very interesting in the announcement on Friday when he talked about maybe this is the moment when the politics of Northern Ireland is really beginning to mature. Let’s remember that the political structures before the Good Friday Agreement couldn’t possibly actually produce a process to bring about peace. In the space of a little more than twelve years they have had to come a very long way and what we’ve seen this week is those in charge of the largest parties reach the historic agreement, Martin McGuinness himself said this could yet be the most significant agreement of them all because this is the moment when, if you like, Good Friday people decided to build on the land where they might one day have a house together. At St Andrew’s they actually had the house but this is the decision to move in together, share power, live together, make it work and complete devolution. We should be very careful about being cynical and we should also, Adam, be very, very careful of one more thing: this is going to require all the parties in Northern Ireland to come on board, I am very grateful for the support of the Conservative party who rang very quickly on Friday to say that they supported this agreement but we have got to see all the political parties in Northern Ireland come on board too and I very much hope that all of them will recognise this is for all the people in Northern Ireland and we have all got a responsibility to make this succeed. Like all agreements, we all have to compromise to make things work, we can’t get everything that we want but I really do believe this is the best possible agreement for everyone in Northern Ireland. 

ADAM BOULTON:Would you like to see the Labour party following the Conservative party in trying to form active political links with parties in Northern Ireland?

SHAUN WOODWARD:Well there has been a very fine tradition in the House of Commons now for a very, very long time, begun under John Major, of ensuring that actually there are no differences between the government and the opposition. I think we have all got to be very careful of becoming involved in a situation ion which it is possible for people in Northern Ireland to think that the government in Westminster has a position towards one particular party rather than another. You see, what Gordon Brown found to be absolutely essential …

ADAM BOULTON:So in other words it was unhelpful that the Conservatives formed this alliance with the Unionists?

SHAUN  WOODWARD:With respect, let me just complete what I was saying. When Gordon came to Hillsborough two weeks ago to start these discussions with the Taoiseach, what he was very, very clear about was the need for him to be neutral, the honest broker, for us to be able to sit with the DUP, sit with Sinn Fein, sit with the SDLP, sit with the Alliance, sit with the UU’s, sit with the Progressive Unionist Party and that they realised that we brought nothing to the table other than wanting to ensure that peace in Northern Ireland could be secured and that we could complete devolution and hand power back from London to Stormont. Now that’s a very, very important credential to bring to the table and all of us have got to be absolutely crystal clear that we are the unequivocal neutral broker, that there is no selfish interest for us in Northern Ireland because … 

ADAM BOULTON:But the implication of that has to be that given this new alliance between the Conservatives and Unionists, you don’t think that a Prime Minister Cameron would be able to be that honest broker.

SHAUN WOODWARD:No, I’m not saying that. These are choices for …

ADAM BOULTON:So what are you saying?

SHAUN  WOODWARD:What I am saying is that you do need to actually be able to be at Stormont as a neutral figure. The peace process is not complete, we saw nearly two weeks ago that the whole thing was about to fall over a cliff. Thanks to Gordon Brown and the Taoiseach working very, very closely together, they came to Northern Ireland, they brought no party interest and they made it very, very clear that their only ambition was for the political process to succeed. Thanks to Gordon Brown and the Taoiseach that’s happened.

ADAM BOULTON:This of course has taken place to the backdrop of the revelations about the Robinson family, do you think it should be possible in British politics for a couple to enrich themselves to the tune of over half a million a year from being public servants?

SHAUN WOODWARD:Well I think you have to remember there was a report this week on Peter Robinson at the Parliament at Stormont which unequivocally cleared Peter Robinson of all the allegations that had been put out there. What is also the case is that Peter Robinson is elected in Northern Ireland and very clearly the people of Northern Ireland will make their decisions. What I think we do have to say, Adam, is that people are allowed natural justice here. Some very serious allegations were made in the course of a BBC Spotlight programme, Peter Robinson stepped down as First Minister and we had the Acting First Minister, Arlene Foster, for two weeks and let me just say that in the course of the negotiations of the last two weeks, Arlene Foster has been a considerable figure. She has represented the DUP with exemplary principle but she was a very strong conciliatory figure, reaching out in a spirit of respect and trust and helping build the atmosphere by which we could succeed but as for Peter Robinson, he is now First Minister again …

ADAM BOULTON:Sean Woodward, thank you very much indeed for joining us this Sunday, thank you for being with us.