Press Office

Aired: Sunday, 13 May, 2007 10:00
Sunday Live with Adam Boulton

 

Boulton:          There was some talk of you and Michael Meacher combining forces and coming up with a single candidate but it didn’t happen.  What went wrong?

 

McDonnell:    We met last week when Tony Blair stood down and we put our nominations together and together we had more than enough to get on the ballot paper so we meet again on Monday and whoever has got the most nominations then goes through and we urge our supporters to back them.

 

Boulton:          Tempting I suppose to pad your nominations.  How are you checking out?

 

McDonnell:    Literally we have gone through name by name and when there is any duplication we have sent people out to check which one they’re supporting.  It just trying to say to people that we want an election, most of our members want to participate in an election.  Our Labour Party members deliver the papers, they knock on the doors, they should have a say over who should be the leader.

 

Boulton:          There is a debate this evening, a three way debate with you, Michael Meacher and Gordon Brown so in a certain extent it is almost a semi-final isn’t it between you and Michael Meacher as to which one goes through to the run off against Gordon Brown?

 

McDonnell:    Well, the good thing about it is that the debate has already started and I am pleased that Gordon Brown has started it, I think he has done well in encouraging a debate.  So, we’ll have the first round tonight and hopefully it looks as though if one of us can get on the ballot paper the Labour Party has arranged hustings all round the country so we’ll really have a good debate about policies but we’ll do it around the policies, not the personality stuff and it will be a friendly debate as well.

 

Boulton:          You are leader of the campaign group, well defined long standing group within the Labour Party but fairly modest size -

 

McDonnell:    - About 30 members -

 

Boulton:          - About 30 members, exactly.  Is it do you think sensible for Gordon Brown to spend, to give undue attention to you, as it were?  I mean, I can see it might be flattering over the next six weeks if you are the only other candidate.

 

McDonnell:    Let me just say this, I don’t think we should exaggerate anyone’s support or anything like that but the rank of the Labour Party and remember the electorate in this case are the Labour Party members, one person one vote, and also our affiliated trade union, one person one vote, within those areas we have got huge support for our policies.  I’m standing on the policies that have been adopted by Labour Party conference and virtually every trade union conference and we’ve got overwhelming support for those policies.  I think if we get on the ballot paper we will demonstrate that actually we have got the broad church back in the Labour Party left, right and centre which I think I command a majority of support for those policies.

 

Boulton:          But you’re not a centralist are you?

 

McDonnell:    I am not a centralist, I am socialist, I come from the left of the party straight forwardly but actually I think my policies and my position commands an overwhelming support most of the rank of the Labour Party.

 

Boulton:          How would you define your main differences with Gordon Brown’s platform?  You’re anti-Trident, that’s one of them -

 

McDonnell:    Yes.  Let’s run through a few issues shall we?

 

Boulton:          Yes.

 

McDonnell:    On the war in Iraq I voted against it from the beginning and Gordon supported it -

 

Boulton:          - So did Michael Meacher -

 

McDonnell:    - Michael Meacher voted for it unfortunately.  I am arguing for withdrawing out of Iraq, going to the United Nations like the democrats are in America.  I am opposed to Trident, I can’t see why we are going to spend 76 billion pounds on a nuclear missile system we are not going to use.  I am opposed to the privatization of the health service.  You know, health workers marched out for us in 1997, they’re marching against us now because of privatizations, cut backs and also because of the pay cut that Gordon Brown has introduced..  I am appalled at the inequality within our society that has happened in the last ten years so I want to re-dispute lifting people out of poverty -

 

Boulton:          - So you’d put up the top rates?

 

McDonnell:    I’d put up the top rate of tax but I am more interested in the corporations who are avoiding tax, some at 150 billion a year at the moment.  Issues like that are quite defining issues between myself and Gordon Brown.

 

Boulton:          It is a defined left wing agenda but it is one which has been rejected again and again hasn’t it?  Michael Foot went down -

 

McDonnell:    It isn’t going backwards it is looking forwards and what is interesting about this debate is that on virtually every policy I am advocating at the moment has majority support after opinion poll after opinion poll.  If you ask people about Iraq – are you in favour of withdrawal? Majority in favour.  Are you opposed to Trident?  Now a majority opposed to Trident.  If you look at what is happening in the health service - 

 

Boulton:          - When you put it together in a package it seems to frighten people.  

 

McDonnell:    I don’t think it does anymore.  I actually think now the general public are significantly to the left of the government itself.  I think Gordon Brown is beginning to wake up to that – on things like housing he has already.  So, this debate is already bringing him on to those issues which I think are radicalizing our government.

 

Boulton:          Is that in fact the intention, given how far ahead he is, to sort of knock him to the left in terms of his agenda?

 

McDonnell:    You don’t go into a battle saying you are going to lose, you don’t wave the white flag -

 

Boulton:          - You accept that you’re the underdog though?

 

McDonnell:    Of course, this is David and Goliath stuff and I accept that.  I’m going in there to win but the most important thing is that I am going there to enable Labour Party members, trade unionists and the general public to have this debate.  If we can have the debate I think I can win people to our policy positions and who ever is the leader when they construct their government, ministers, cabinet and all the rest and when they adopt their policy programme it will have to take into account that broad church of thought within the Labour Party.

 

Boulton:          And what do you have over Michael Meacher who after all has quite a long ministerial experience?

 

McDonnell:    I am not getting into that, I think I have -

 

Boulton:          - Are there policy differences?

 

McDonnell:    There are some policy positions -

 

Boulton:          - What are they?

 

McDonnell:    Well, for example, on the issue of Iraq Michael did vote for it I am sorry that’s the reality of it.  I have a consistent position of voting against a number of things now that are seen as the government’s main failings; I.D. cards as an example.  A whole series of issues like that where I have been campaigning and actually against the stream of course but now the stream is flowing in our favour.  I am now in a majority in the Party and the country on most of those issues that I have stood firm on and that is what politics is all about, it’s about principals and courage isn’t it?

 

Boulton:          What would you say your odds are?

 

McDonnell:    My odds?  I’m not a betting man Adam but you know as well as I do this is David and Goliath.  I do think if I can get on ballot paper you’ll be surprised at the support I have got.

 

Boulton:          Do you regard Gordon Brown as an improvement on Tony Blair, come what may?

 

McDonnell:    The problem with Gordon is this - I have a lot of time for him, he has got a brain the size of Mars and you know, he’s a Labour person, he’s not new Labour anymore thank goodness and he has announced that.  However, he has been the architect of most of these policies for the last ten years so I think there’s a problem.  Unless we can demonstrate radical change we have got a real problem, we could sleepwalk into a Tory government if we’re not careful.

 

Boulton:          And if perchance Gordon Brown were to emerge as Prime Minister at the end, having stood against him and being defeated would that in any way change the campaign groups approach to the government or would you continue to vote against it fairly frequently?

 

McDonnell:    Always vote on the basis of principal and judgment, that’s the whole thing about it and that’s why I think some of the people have been turned off politics – they’ve been seeing the machine politics working.  I think we want to restore politics which is about principal, proper judgments and listening to what our communities are telling us.  That’s the way forward for politics in this country and I think Gordon Brown is beginning to accept that as well.  However, we’ll have an election, whoever becomes the leader after a democratic vote we will then unite and defeat the Tories.  That’s what it is all about.