Press Office

Aired: Sunday, 8 January, 2006 10:00
Sudnay with Adam Boulton

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Sunday 8th January 2006.

 

Interview with the Liberal Democrat’s Nick Clegg M.P., Vincent Cable M.P. and Susan Kramer M.P.

 

Any excerpts used to be attributed to Sky News’ ‘Sunday with Adam Boulton’ programme.

 

Boulton:          Well let’s start with Mark Oaten.  Susan Kramer what could that all be about?

Kramer:          Well it’s not difficult to guess is it?  I would assume Mark is throwing his hat into the ring but I’ve not talked to him.  But I think we are at the point where the party has said it would like to see a lot of names in the ring; we would like to see quite a wide ranging discussion so I suspect this is number two in.

Boulton:          Nick Clegg, a lot of names, so how many do you mean?

Clegg:             Well I hope there isn’t going to be a sort of great cornucopia of different leadership contenders.  I think actually last time round we had almost too many on the field, it became a bit silly and in fact there were only two or three who were really serious.  And in my view that would be much better to present to the members if there is going to be a contest.

 

Boulton:          Well alright, well suppose it is Menzies Campbell, Mark Oaten and Simon Hughes I suppose would then have to come in.  Who would win?

Clegg:             Well I have come out in support of Menzies Campbell.  I worked has his deputy for quite some time around the House of Commons.  I am enormously impressed by him both as a person and as a politician, and I think above and beyond everything else he has the political reach and experience to settle what, is quite an unsettled party.

 

Boulton:          Suzan Kramer?

Kramer:          Well I feel very good about Menzies.  But I have to say rather than agree with Nick I’d actually like to see a lot of people out there.  I would like to see this as a real ideas discussion.  I think we are ready for that as a party and this will be a great opportunity so I’d like to see many more names.  So I’m going to hang fire until we see how this develops.

Boulton:          Vincent Cable.  Do you think Mark Oaten is coming into the race?  Has he consulted you at all?

Cable:             Well I have no idea.  I think I agree with the basic proposition that it would be healthy to have a contest, because of our rules, that every contestant needs seven MPs to nominate, I think we’re probably talking about two or three people.  But I think a contest would be desirable, putting forward different ideas on the positions we take up as a party, I think that’s the way forward.

Boulton:          Why aren’t you a candidate?

Cable:             Well I think it’s a job I could do and I could do it well.  But as it happens one of my senior colleagues, Sir Menzies Campbell has come forward.  I think he would be an absolutely admirable leader, I think he has, as Nick Clegg says, many qualities not least being experience, gravitas, a sense of authority and a potential to be a Prime Minister and I’m very happy to back him and endorse his candidacy which I have already done.

Boulton:          I mean all three of you have said warm words about Menzies Campbell.  Couldn’t the public feel it’s being conned a bit that the Liberal Democrats are going for publicity with having a leadership contest with a number of candidates, where in fact the eventual winner is a forgone conclusion?

Cable:             I don’t think it is a foregone conclusion.  I think that if two or three names do eventually emerge and settle there will be quite strong debate.  Ours is a very lively, democratic party, we’re not sort of deferential, and I would suspect the competition to be quite tough.  Though Menzies Campbell clearly is an outstanding candidate and I would hope at the end of it that he would emerge as leader.

Boulton:          Your two colleagues here in the studio raised their eyebrows a bit when I described you as three assassins of Charles Kennedy.  Do you think you are an assassin?

Cable:             No I don’t think so.  I have to say the last few days have not been very pleasant and not easy.

Boulton:          Least of all for him I imagine?

Cable:             Not at all indeed, that’s right.  But I mean it was something that had to be done, all parties have this problem when we come to the need for a change of leadership.  The British political system does vest enormous importance in party leadership and then when the change occurs it can be difficult and I think some of us had to come forward and say that a change was necessary.  We initially dealt with this privately, private conversations with Charles Kennedy, eventually it became public and he’s know stepped down in a very dignified and very commendable way.  And I think what my view now is some relief that this has happened in the way it has, some sadness for him, very considerable blow for him, but also a sense of appreciation for the real contributions he’s made to the party in the last six years. We’ve advanced a lot politically, he was right on the Iraq War and I think we are now in a very strong position.

Boulton:          Was he blackmailed with an alleged charge sheet of instances when he’d been drunk?

Cable:             No I don’t think so, I think we were aware that that was one of the problems and that certainly was one of the issues we had to confront but I think the word blackmail is really not appropriate at all.

Boulton:          Nick Clegg, was it really Charles Kennedy’s drinking or the arrival of David Cameron that forced you all to panic and look for a new leader?

Clegg:             I think, and this is very much confirmed to me by the people who work for the party in my constituency in Sheffield, that Charles’s announcement on Thursday that he was suffering from alcoholism really changed the mood enormously and, if you like, spread what had been some unease from within the parliamentary party to the membership as a whole.  I really think from that announcement onwards his really was, his leadership was completely untenable.

Boulton:          I mean are you seriously saying that it’s nothing to do with the possibility of a squeeze by David Cameron?

Clegg:             Oh no I think there was all sorts of discussion about how to deal with a Conservative Party that is redefining itself.  Whether we have used the last few months since the last General Election to good effect?  What kind of direction we want to take in the future?  All of these debates go on in the background.  I suppose they did slightly dovetail into some of the concerns about Charles’s alcoholism but I think they are separable.

Boulton:          Susan Kramer?

Kramer:          Well I suppose in the way the arrival of David Cameron increased the urgency of making a decision.  I do think probably for the new intake and Nick and I both part of the new intake, it had been somewhat of a surprise to realise the problem was as serious as it was.  And a feeling that we needed to move ahead, we weren’t here to mess around.  We all have enormous personal sympathy for Charles, he’s handled himself so graciously yesterday and he will always be much loved within the party.  But we needed to move ahead, the time had come.

Boulton:          If you’ve got a Labour Party and a Conservative Party both saying they are going to defend public services, why do you need Liberal Democrats at all?

Kramer:          Well I find it fascinating that they are all coming onto our ground particularly after attacking us throughout the General Election…

Boulton:          Well everyone claims it’s their ground!

Kramer:          ….I shall so much enjoy waving those manifestos at them…

Boulton:          It’s a very crowded centre ground though isn’t it?

Kramer:          No we hold that ground, we hold it because it’s part of our core beliefs and when you look at the party, even the range of philosophies, you know, the issues on the environment, dealing sensibly with public services, looking for an effective and well functioning economy. Those have always been core Liberal Democrat policies, they are our territory.  The others are most welcome but we are there in spirit and belief not just with the veneer because it looks good to the electorate.

Boulton:          I mean Nick Clegg, how much of a renewal do you think the Liberal Democrats need to come up with this Parliament?

Clegg:             I think British politics is moving into a different phase, I mean it’s a cliché but it’s obvious.  New leadership of the Conservative Party, new leadership for the Labour Party, at some point, whenever Blair decides…

Boulton:          Politicians without ties…

Clegg:             Politicians without ties on Sunday mornings indeed! 

Kramer:          We women led the way with that, I have to say!

Clegg:             And so I think there is a great deal of churn going on in all of the political parties intellectually and in policy terms and it’s very difficult to predict where….

Boulton:          Where do you think your party needs to go?

Clegg:             Oh I think, look, there is absolutely no question that we need to continue to fight where elections are fought and won and that is in the centre ground of British politics.  Any temptation to lurch right or lurch left is daft and is doomed to failure.  But the trick and you are right, of course the field is more crowded, but the trick is not to then sort of vacate the field, but is to make sure that your ideas, your proposals are more innovative, are bolder, are more eye-catching, are more attractive to voters.  That is our task.

Boulton:          And on economic policy does that mean being a party of higher taxation?

Clegg:             Well I mean I defer to Vince on this, above and beyond anything else we need to be credible on our economic policy.  That is perhaps where we haven’t been as strong in previous years.  I think under Vince’s leadership, as Shadow Chancellor, we’ve done an enormous amount to address that and to become more credible and I think that has to continue.

Boulton:          But Mr. Cable on the overall picture of taxation do the Liberal Democrats need to continue to be the one party, as they always boast, honest enough to put up taxes?

Cable:             Well clearly if circumstances required it we would be honest about it but the position we’ve now taken up and it’s very clear, is that we favour fairer taxes than we have at present but we don’t want higher taxes than the Labour Government will have at the end of this Parliament.  We’re about fair taxes not higher taxes.

Boulton:          And what about this leadership contest?  Still some suggestions this morning that perhaps the best thing to do would be to delay it until after the local elections in May.  What are your feelings on that?

Cable:             No I don’t think that is right.  We’ve had a difficult period; I think actually the party has emerged stronger for it.  But we can’t just sit around for six months on interim, caretaker arrangements.  We now have a leadership contest, we should choose a leader, we should set our course for the next General Election and of course take into our stride these important local elections and indeed there is a by-election ahead.  But I think postponement caretaker relationships are not the answer.

Boulton:          Are you for postponement Susan Kramer?

Kramer:          I’m more in the mood to say let’s go and let’s clear the air and let’s deal with it now.  The local elections though are going to be important and I’d like to see what people think.

Boulton:          Ok.

Clegg:             Oh no, no no.  We’ve got to get moving, no we can’t sort of tread water with this hanging over us for months that would be terrifically destructive.

Boulton:          Ok, final one word question to you all.  One word to describe Charles Kennedy this morning?

Clegg:             Dignified.

Kramer:          Lovely man.

Cable:             Great achievement, but very sad I’m sure this morning.

Boulton:          Bit more than one though, thank you very much indeed!